“I think what you’re reacting to is that, at the moment, Biden is an unpopular president seeking a second term while Trump is a popular figure inside his party who is winning primary races. I wouldn’t necessarily compare the two.”
Credit to @JoshuaHolland
Why do you guys consistently frame things as bad for Biden but never bad for Trump?
And your reply was to frame things that exact way. You’re acting as though you’re just reporting the “view from nowhere” or something but you’re not. You’re talking about two unpopular politicians, and yet when Trump came up you only spoke about his popularity within his own base.
The old “let me disprove your point by proving your point” technique.
Yeah.
I mean, the one point towards fairness: It’s clear that that’s actually how he sees it. If he were trying to engineer some boost for Trump by cleverly slanting his coverage, then he would have obfuscated it with how he answered this question. His answer shows that he clearly just believes that’s how the world is: Trump is popular, Biden is unpopular, and they need to accurately reflect that in their political coverage and there are no other relevant objective facts that should impact that decision.
Which is not like I’m trying to insult him personally for that being how he sees it, but it does mean he has no business being a journalist. If you tend to freeze up under stress, then no shame about it, but it means you can’t fly an airplane for a living.
I think you’re misunderstanding his point. Biden is facing the difficult task of governing a divided country. Trump is looking to consolidate power within his own party. One of these tasks is a historic, perhaps insurmountable challenge, and the other is routine. Even from a completely neutral perspective, this means you will report on more failures by Biden and more successes for Trump.
I personally don’t find this “the media is so mean to Biden!” narrative any more compelling than when Trump was claiming the same thing as president. The media has always been critical of those in power and this is a healthy part of our democratic system.
I mean, if they were reporting on Biden’s progress in governing through that lens, and Trump’s progress in the election, then I could see validity to what you’re saying as the reason why. But that’s not the case – they’re reporting the election in those unequal terms.
One great example is the little nugget contained in his answer, where Trump is “winning primary races” and that’s a notable point about his popularity. Biden’s won 86% of the primary popular vote. Trump’s won 72% of the primary popular vote. Every single person who follows political news knows that there’s a little revolt of uncommitted voters because of Biden’s support for Israel. How many people know about 30+% of voters in Republican primaries saying that they won’t necessarily support the eventual nominee in November? That’s very unusual, and clearly a bigger story on exactly the same subject, and it’d be worth diving into the reasons behind it because they would uncover some objective things underlying their decisions that would be great to report on. Yet somehow it gets less press than the uncommitted voters making problems for Biden (which, obviously, are also an important story to report on.)
I personally don’t find this “the media is so mean to Biden!” narrative any more compelling than when Trump was claiming the same thing as president. The media has always been critical of those in power and this is a healthy part of our democratic system.
I mean, every president in modern history has whined about how the press is being mean to them (usually with some validity). It’s part of the job. But it doesn’t mean that careful analysis of “is the press coverage actually slanted” suddenly turns into an automatically wrong thing.
A lot of media coverage, especially in elections has to do with expectations. Biden is an incumbent facing no real opposition in the primary. Trump had real opposition, and there was a chance he would lose. You could argue he’s a semi-incumbent but I don’t think the media views him that way. Reporting on his overcoming this obstacle is naturally going to look a little more positive. In contrast, Biden has little to no chance of losing but has somehow managed to create major opposition to his candidacy anyway. This is noteworthy.
The non-committed vote is an unusual event and it ties into an important issue: the US government’s ongoing material support for ethnic cleansing in Gaza. I think it would be quite bizarre if this did not get coverage.
I am not saying that arguments of bias are automatically wrong, but as you say they have been (falsely, I think) repeated by every president. It’s going to take some compelling evidence and argumentation to overcome my natural skepticism of this idea. So far, I haven’t seen any real case be made. Not to mention that I think there is generally a greater danger in coverage of the powerful that is too positive as compared to too negative. See right-wing media’s fawning Trump coverage for an example.
Your own wording softens the blow too much, imho. How is it “fairness” to point out that he may or may not have been lying (you seem to think not but… how can you tell, really? after all: his answers were prepared in advance, thus the fact that they were not inconsistent is not a surprise?)
Also, even if like you say he is massive unintelligent, he still collects a paycheck to do the job - how then is he not a liar, either way? When people get into a plane, it is with the expectation that the “pilot” knows how to fly the plane. Then, if someone passes themselves off as one, how is that not a lie?
There are so many more ways than one to be incorrect. For example, just b/c they don’t slant the coverage as much overtly towards Trump does not mean that it is unbiased for it to have been slanted away from Biden.
The job of a newspaper is to tell the unvarnished Truth. Whether it fails to do so for reasons of profit, or b/c of Russian interference, or they are merely unintelligent, or whatever - does it matter? Whether it is a “lie” (and that fact demonstrable in a court of law) or not, it is not the Truth, and thus fails the criteria of being “news”, and remains mere opinion instead.
Trump is the dumpster fire the Republican party has been working towards since Reagan. He is exactly what is expected on the Red side.
Biden is a union busting right leaning genocidal sociopath, which is the exact opposite of what you would expect from the Blue side.
America has been lost.
union busting
Biden is arguably the most pro-union president in recent history, hands down.
If you’re talking about the one time he signed a bill to force the rail workers to work … while we were in the middle of already very very serious supply chain issues right before the holiday season… We got through the season and the rail unions ultimately ended up winning https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid
right leaning
How?
genocidal sociopath
If he didn’t help Isreal he’d be thrown under the bus for weakening the US’s only ally in the middle east. He’d also likely be opening up a power vacuum (and potentially larger war) that would backfire very badly for the US.
The real issue is the Isreal people elected their own version of Trump so Biden is dealing with a “Trump of Isreal” that’s more than happy to run down civilians.
It’s not like he hasn’t been trying to go behind Isreal’s back and help Palestine. It’s just not a “press a button to stop sending them weapons and all the problems go away” situation.
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It seems like everybody needs to remind democrat voters that it was Hilary that made Trump a Republican candidate so she would have a better chance at winning. Republicans work towards Trump, Democrats did. Voting for Democrats is a vote for worse Republican candidates and I assume vice versa.
And then she still lost. Why? Because she was a conservative running as a Democrat because her husband gave her an in with the party.
We do not currently have a liberal party in America. We have a bunch of dunce christian conservatives on the red side and we have a bunch of brainwashed not-christian conservatives on the blue side.
We have VERY few that are anti-war, anti-genocide, anti-cash-in-politics, pro-working-class politicians because Hilary and her circle murdered the moral compass of the Democrat party.
Look, you have two choices:
- You stay home and wake up in a nightmare where Trump uses his power to usurp the presidency and end democracy, because that’s exactly what he and his followers want.
- You get your ass to the polls and vote for Biden.
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So you will support it with inaction? There is no magic third door here. Both sides are pro-genocide, one can be worked on, one cannot. Vote blue to stop the worst, keep protesting to change the discussion. Sword and shield.
My Republican family members are 100% behind the murder of all Palestinians. No aid. No ceasefire talks. Inaction will allow those people to call the shots. What use are morals if they don’t save anyone?
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I need you to understand this first—the slate is never clean. No one makes better decisions under increased chaos and uncertainty. Ever. They don’t learn. They don’t find their better selves. They use the hardship to justify atrocity. Why do you think rural communities are the way they are? People won’t suddenly open their eyes and say golly gee those leftists were right, we are all in this together and let us all put our best foot forward. Tomorrow is always yoked to yesterday. No matter how unfair, no matter how unjust, you can never raze enough of what came before to start again fresh. There is nothing that works but gradual change.
Do not take my word for this. Start reading. You are ready for pain and death and to drink the hot blood of our enemies for the glorious revolution. But what the revolution really needs from you, is for you to suffer through some boring ass books. No shortcuts. No meme politics. No youtube activism. If this is not a thing you are willing to do, if this feels like throwing damp sand on the fire, I need you to think critically about that.
Do you want equitable change or is it more important to keep that rage burning? If so how does that make you any different from a drunk on outrage MAGA fuckwit?
Use all the tools at hand to save as many as you can. This means not letting the orange fucker back into power. You can vote blue and put a brick through the AIPAC’s office window if you so choose. All good lefties learn to walk and chew gum at the same time.
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Agree
I actually don’t even agree that Biden is a “lesser evil” in the first place, I’ve talked about it
But even accepting for a second the premise that there’s nothing to support about Biden, I like how to these guys the lesson of 2016 and Hilary Clinton is “let’s refuse to support the establishment candidate against someone who’s clearly worse, what harm could come of it?”
I blame South Park.
I very much believe – I’m being completely serious about this – that 4chan making good memes about Trump becoming president, because it really is just inherently a funny idea, had a lot to do with elevating him from 0 support to a little kernel of popularity that could start to grow into something.
Boomers don’t pay attention to 4Chan. It’s such a small segment of the population.
Gen X and Millennials pay attention to South Park, though. They see that “douche vs. turd sandwich” bit and think “Hey, that applies to our situation now!” Then they stay home in protest, because they don’t like certain aspects of Hillary’s campaign and ideals, as opposed to hating every aspect that Trump does or represents.
It’s not about picking the “lesser evil”. It’s about having realistic expectations and analyzing the situation as a whole. During the primaries, you pick the candidate you want. During the general election, you pick the party you want, even if your primary pick didn’t win. That’s it.
because the media wants republicans to win because they make more money with republicans in power.
The media should be laser focused on highlighting the complete corruption of The Supreme Court
Ginni Thomas is an insurrectionist
Her husband takes bribes
Amerikkka is screwed
Post Citizens United/Hilary democrats are just as bad in that rite.
The media sounds neutral on Trump because noone is surprised. The media is mostly silent on Biden because there is nothing to say other than ‘experts say he is slightly better than Trump’.
to be fair you’re talking to a hillary democrat and id vote for her again if i could. she would have been a great president.
Yup, great for lobbyists, wall street, and the military industrial complex.
Like Biden.
Progressives have killed the democrat party.
but when you look at actions in his control (outside of congress), biden has been one of the most progressive, pro union democrats in recent history
I’m trying not to bring it up because I don’t want just a sprawling argument about everything, but after Biden “union busted” the rail workers, his labor department kept working the issue and got the workers their sick days anyway. Like a lot of the quippy little criticisms, “union busting” has a lot more to do with cherry-picking one event people are familiar with and trying to create a Biden-is-bad picture out of it, than it does with reality.
Or to put another way every year Biden’s been in office, union membership has risen by a tiny amount, after having fallen by a tiny amount every single year that the last guy was in office. If he’s trying to do union busting he’s doing a pretty shitty job at it.
He codified, in law, that they couldnt strike, and then made private one time not codified deals with the owners after the fact.
It isnt cherry picking, it is observing the whole truth and not chomping at the bit to spout Democrat spin.
I remember in 2022 when Biden passed the 1926 Railway Labor Act(PDF link).
Hilary was the one that got Trump elected in the primaries so she would have a better chance at winning. When Wikileaks leaked that, they bribed Ecaudor billions to get Assange in jail. Vote for Hilary is a vote for her tactics, getting worse Radical candidates and journalists reporting on it in jail.
While I think what she did was wrong, you can do the right thing and get the wrong outcome. You can also do the wrong thing and get a good outcome.
My point is we should judge all politicians on the totality of their actions. Hilary would have been a good president, if flawed, just like any other good president. Trump was and would be a terrible president. He brings shame to the role and minimises the plight of those that suffer with his childish and petty nature.
How can a politician that manipulates free elections and risking so much the lives of the many, for her own benefit, be a good president. She is obviously selfish and manipulative. She Got the worst possible candidate to be a Republican nominie just so she doesn’t have to let someone else more popular in her party be candidate.
If Hilary was president rather than Trump, millions of people would not have died of Covid. That’s good in my book. She may not be a good person, but she would have been a good and effective president.
Manipulation implies what she did was nefarious. Like her opposition, that actively manipulated, conspired with the enemy, against the law, and then started a coup.
Hilary, just like Trump, is a rich person shill and would do anything to get corporations that are losing money from lockdown to get what they want. She is no better, she got Trump as a primary Republican candidate in her pied piper strategy just because she knew she would certainly lose if someone more reasonable would have been a Republican candidate.
Maybe because Trump supporters don’t care what he says or does, while nobody fanatically supports Biden
Yeah, exactly. Nothing is bad for Trump because he has turned into a quasi-religious figure.
Before we get out the flaming pitchforks, let us not forget that pretty much no one reads or cares about the New York Times. Their readership (print and web) is minuscule compared to entities like CNN, NBC News, ABC News, CBS News, MSNBC (and Fox, OANN, Breitbart, Joe Rogan…).
Sure, it sucks that the NYT is sucking Trump cock, but in the end, that won’t move the needle.
I won’t necessarily disagree wrt the small readership – but The New York Times is notable because it is at this point the only big outlet which is both still doing actual journalism (as in researching big stories from scratch and determining the truth of them from primary sources) and also making a profit at it. There are lots of examples of each one in isolation (although, tragically, less and less of the first one year by year), but they are the only one left that is doing both.
If they’re starting to turn over to the “truth doesn’t matter gimme that bag” side (which it seems like to some degree they are), then it’s a significant loss.
I haven’t read anything from the NYT that would constitute “actual journalism” in what seems like many years now. It’s not much different than the NY Post, just with less bombast.
This is just exposing that you don’t actually read the New York Times.
Here’s an article on the plight of Gazans in Rafah in the face of a potential Israeli invasion.
Here’s an overview on the gang situation in Haiti as the government is functionally collapsing.
And here’s an article discussing the increasingly common practice of restaurants charging significant cancellation fees.
Meanwhile, the NY Post has such great stories as:
- Kate Middleton officially hits rock bottom
- Rudy Giuliani’s ex engaged to Palm Beach energy exec after six months of dating in ‘whirlwind romance’ (Exclusive!)
- Unions want full control of schools and our kids — we can’t let Albany allow it
- Activists lobbying to ‘morally’ allow trans kids to change their bodies are only doing more harm
The formal news section of the NY Post is not that different than the NY Times. It’s just not the focus of the NYP. And the NYT isn’t reporting anything beyond the most basic of news events. It’s pretty much the same thing as reading the AP. I can’t remember the last time they got a real scoop or any inside sources on anything.
