Maybe if they are violent and reoffending they should be disallowed from participating in a close, intimate relationship until they receive intensive therapy, which may include medication?
This is just masking a problem that is multi-faceted and the results aren’t really that impressive.
Edit: I am not suggesting a license for private interpersonal relationships, I’m suggesting that we actually rehabilitate prisoners/offenders and give them therapy/mental health treatment. Commenters below are twisting my words and saying I’m suggesting things that are not in the above text, not even a little bit. I quickly stated that I meant this to be a term for probation (which is conditional freedom), not something retroactively applied to past offenders or applied to all adults in the form of a license.
I’m suggesting that we actually rehabilitate offenders after they offend to give them better tools to deal with their emotions and relationships to prevent more hurt from happening.
Plenty of people that commit certain crimes have conditions for re-entering society in whole and I don’t think what I’m suggesting is unreasonable.
I’m a firm believer in rehabilitative and restorative justice, not criminal justice/punitive punishment (which is a far cry from justice and punitive justice doesn’t properly disincentivize crime).
Just untrue. Your twisting is not reflective of what I was saying at all.
The current system punishes people who commit domestic violence, and chances are, they go straight back to relationships and are incentivized to scare their partner to not report further abuse because they have been taught nothing through their punishment.
they should be disallowed from participating in a close, intimate relationship
The legal mechanisms required to enforce that would be some form of government permission and approval structure, such as licensing.
No amount of rhetorical flourish can get away from what they are essentially presenting, which is requiring government permission for interpersonal relationships.
How would the government track an individuals approval for personal private relationships?
How would the government enforce penalties on private citizens who engaged in an unauthorized private relationships?
And then we get to some fun questions, like what happens if the government privatizes the relationship approval system that OP is proposing?
The legal mechanisms required to enforce that would be some form of government permission and approval structure, such as licensing.
False.
For example, if one is a sex offender/domestic violence perpetrator in the US, they can be disallowed to have a relationship as part of their probation. Therapy can also be a requirement for probation.
How would the government track an individuals approval for personal private relationships?
How would the government enforce penalties on private citizens who engaged in an unauthorized private relationships?
There are probation officers who handle these cases and violating the terms of probation usually results in a loss of freedom/punishment of the person serving probation.
Nope. I’m suggesting that people who offend (especially reoffenders) should go to therapy (locked ward) instead of prison and be taught how to be functioning human beings who don’t hurt others, especially those close to them. The sentence would be similar to their incarceration.
What I’m suggesting is akin to a prison sentence and probation (which may have terms and conditions).
You are acting like I’m talking about all people, but I’m limiting this to people who commit violent, domestic crime against others, especially repeatedly.
Never heard of this person, but given that there are accusations against them that are at the forefront of search results I’m unsure if I feel it prudent to expose myself to their works.
I’m all in favor of rehabilitation instead of punitive imprisonment too, but you did say “they should be disallowed from participating in a close, intimate relationship”, not that they should be sent to rehab. We’re not twisting your words at all. There’s no other way to read that. You didn’t say anything about rehabilitation, you were talking solely about restriction of relationships. If you meant something else, you should say what you meant.
I clarified that I did mean that umpteen times if you cared to look (including in the edit to the comment you just responded to), but the other commenter refused to listen to the nuance and called it “rhetorical flourishing”.
People have terms for probation. I said that if you are violent and reoffending (domestic abuser) that there should be restrictions for you entering into a new or existing relationship. Which is a viable term for probation to prevent abuse.
The system for probation already exists, I said nothing about licenses or licenses affecting all adults - which the other commenter repeatedly asserts I’m suggesting. It is twisting and it is likely in bad faith.
You later clarified it, yes, but you’re getting bent out of shape when people responded to what you had initially written. We can’t see the future edits, nor read your mind for intent. We can only read what you have written.
The intent was clarified within minutes of me responding (and ignored) - and if you look deep, a commenter still asserts that I’m suggesting licenses for all adults.
Can you not see the disconnect and the spin the person is continuing to push? They are suggesting an entirely new system (licenses for all adults) and applying that to me, while I’m over here pointing to something that already exists as a likely implementation: probation terms (which they refuse to address).
I never suggested “offender lists”. I’m not saying probation terms retroactively apply to past offenders, either.
You can see my reply to limonfiesta, there is a profound misunderstanding y’all are having. I’m addressing our failing systems, like “criminal justice”, which is a total and complete farce.
Maybe if they are violent and reoffending they should be disallowed from participating in a close, intimate relationship until they receive intensive therapy, which may include medication?
This is just masking a problem that is multi-faceted and the results aren’t really that impressive.
Edit: I am not suggesting a license for private interpersonal relationships, I’m suggesting that we actually rehabilitate prisoners/offenders and give them therapy/mental health treatment. Commenters below are twisting my words and saying I’m suggesting things that are not in the above text, not even a little bit. I quickly stated that I meant this to be a term for probation (which is conditional freedom), not something retroactively applied to past offenders or applied to all adults in the form of a license.
Oi where’s your gf license mate
Are you proposing that people should have to obtain a government-issued licenses for private interpersonal relationships?
Keywords are: violent and reoffending.
I’m suggesting that we actually rehabilitate offenders after they offend to give them better tools to deal with their emotions and relationships to prevent more hurt from happening.
Plenty of people that commit certain crimes have conditions for re-entering society in whole and I don’t think what I’m suggesting is unreasonable.
I’m a firm believer in rehabilitative and restorative justice, not criminal justice/punitive punishment (which is a far cry from justice and punitive justice doesn’t properly disincentivize crime).
You could have just said yes.
Just untrue. Your twisting is not reflective of what I was saying at all.
The current system punishes people who commit domestic violence, and chances are, they go straight back to relationships and are incentivized to scare their partner to not report further abuse because they have been taught nothing through their punishment.
You are suggesting government issued licenses/permission for private people to engage in private relationships.
I’m not seeing where that was said?
The legal mechanisms required to enforce that would be some form of government permission and approval structure, such as licensing.
No amount of rhetorical flourish can get away from what they are essentially presenting, which is requiring government permission for interpersonal relationships.
How would the government track an individuals approval for personal private relationships?
How would the government enforce penalties on private citizens who engaged in an unauthorized private relationships?
And then we get to some fun questions, like what happens if the government privatizes the relationship approval system that OP is proposing?
Why couldn’t you just respond like that to me?
False.
For example, if one is a sex offender/domestic violence perpetrator in the US, they can be disallowed to have a relationship as part of their probation. Therapy can also be a requirement for probation.
There are probation officers who handle these cases and violating the terms of probation usually results in a loss of freedom/punishment of the person serving probation.
Nope. I’m suggesting that people who offend (especially reoffenders) should go to therapy (locked ward) instead of prison and be taught how to be functioning human beings who don’t hurt others, especially those close to them. The sentence would be similar to their incarceration.
What I’m suggesting is akin to a prison sentence and probation (which may have terms and conditions).
You are acting like I’m talking about all people, but I’m limiting this to people who commit violent, domestic crime against others, especially repeatedly.
Lundy Bancroft is known for conducting the very thing you seem to be describing. If you haven’t already you should check out his works.
Never heard of this person, but given that there are accusations against them that are at the forefront of search results I’m unsure if I feel it prudent to expose myself to their works.
I’m all in favor of rehabilitation instead of punitive imprisonment too, but you did say “they should be disallowed from participating in a close, intimate relationship”, not that they should be sent to rehab. We’re not twisting your words at all. There’s no other way to read that. You didn’t say anything about rehabilitation, you were talking solely about restriction of relationships. If you meant something else, you should say what you meant.
I clarified that I did mean that umpteen times if you cared to look (including in the edit to the comment you just responded to), but the other commenter refused to listen to the nuance and called it “rhetorical flourishing”.
People have terms for probation. I said that if you are violent and reoffending (domestic abuser) that there should be restrictions for you entering into a new or existing relationship. Which is a viable term for probation to prevent abuse.
The system for probation already exists, I said nothing about licenses or licenses affecting all adults - which the other commenter repeatedly asserts I’m suggesting. It is twisting and it is likely in bad faith.
You later clarified it, yes, but you’re getting bent out of shape when people responded to what you had initially written. We can’t see the future edits, nor read your mind for intent. We can only read what you have written.
The intent was clarified within minutes of me responding (and ignored) - and if you look deep, a commenter still asserts that I’m suggesting licenses for all adults.
See: https://lemmy.world/comment/20879263
Can you not see the disconnect and the spin the person is continuing to push? They are suggesting an entirely new system (licenses for all adults) and applying that to me, while I’m over here pointing to something that already exists as a likely implementation: probation terms (which they refuse to address).
I never suggested “offender lists”. I’m not saying probation terms retroactively apply to past offenders, either.
So lemme guess, sex outside of marriage should be illegal? Is that where you’re going with this?
You can see my reply to limonfiesta, there is a profound misunderstanding y’all are having. I’m addressing our failing systems, like “criminal justice”, which is a total and complete farce.